OOXML Hit into the Long Grass 
2008-06-12, 06:20

ODF – news?


The latest issue of the ODF Alliance Newsletter has been published (PDF) and predictably enough the lead story is on … OOXML (their favourite topic).

The (I thought) exciting news that Microsoft has announced upcoming support for ODF in its Office products is relegated to second place and gets the rather grudging headline “ODF Alliance calls on Microsoft to act on its commitment to implement support for ODF”. Ah – I didn’t realise the real story here was the statement the ODF Alliance had issued. Being an ODF supporter gets a bit confusing sometimes.

Anyway, the newsletter’s lead story mentions that four countries have appealed to ISO and IEC (as confirmed by the official press release) and adds for good measure that Denmark has “protested” and that there is legal action in the UK.

The appeals of South Africa, Brazil, India and Venezuela are for real, and the texts of two of these appeals are spread widely over the web (I believe Brazil’s text reached the blogs even before it reached Geneva).

Denmark has not appealed. What appears to have happened in Denmark is that an open source lobby group has written a letter to the Danish Standards body. That is not “Denmark protesting”.

And in the UK there have been developments in the so-called “legal challenge” to BSI’s decision on DIS 29500 …

Singeing the King of Spin’s Beard


What has happened in the UK is fairly well documented. In September 2007 the UK, as a JTC 1 P-member, voted on DIS 29500 and submitted a record-breaking 635 comments outlining technical faults. The (officially confidential) details of that September ballot’s votes have been widely leaked on the web showing the UK’s vote of disapproval at that time.

After the BRM, and following the vote modification process earlier this year, BSI published a FAQ explaining what had just happened. In this it stated:

BSI British Standards exercised its right to vote based on the recommendation of its technical experts who are members of IST/41. IST/41 reached a consensus decision and BSI voted in accordance with the committee’s recommendation.

A few days prior to this a report of IST/41’s meeting had appeared on The Register, leaked by persons unknown, apparently in an effort to “smoke out” (read intimidate) the committee members. Angry and/or veiledly threatening emails to committee members duly flowed, but overall the leak had no effect in changing any positions. (But who knows how the suggestion that the UK was changing its vote might have been received in other countries – the leaker may have unwittingly given DIS 29500 a boost!)

Following the end of the voting process, the UK Unix Users Group (UKUUG) issued a press release attacking BSI. The press release began:

“Last week BSI (British Standards Institution) decided to approve the fast tracking of the Microsoft sponsored OOXML format (DIS29500)”

and the UKUUG chairman, Alain Williams, provided the following quotation:

“We are very disappointed that BSI has chosen to take this decision against the advice of its technical committee.”

– pretty much a direct accusation that the BSI’s own published statements on DIS 29500 were untrue.

Now the UKUUG clearly looks upon itself as a pretty serious organisation. Its press release – not short on pomp – states that it “values intelligence, thoughtfulness and long-term thinking rather than immediacy and froth.”

In that light there are a number of things that are very puzzling about the UKUUG’s recent behaviour. Most of this stems from the fact that UKUUG was a member of IST/41, the very technical committee which recommended the final UK position on DIS 29500.

So, one might ask:

  • Why is a Unix (Unix!) user group (user group!) so interested in DIS 29500 anyway?
  • Why are its members’ funds being used to finance a preposterous legal action (their site rather desperately asks: “If you're looking to support UKUUG in it's [sic] efforts to examine the BSI's OOXML decision, you can join UKUUG or make a donation via paypal to paypal@ukuug.org.”)
  • Even allowing UKUUG is legitimately interested, why did it not send (as it should have) a representative to the crucial meeting on DIS 29500 that decided the committee’s position? That was how it could have lodged its members’ views.
  • Having disenfranchised its members and failed to influence the process legitimately in the meeting (UKUUG attendance would have made a decisive difference, I have no doubt), why then attempt to influence the process externally?
  • Why question the veracity of BSI’s statements, when as a group UKUUG is entitled access to all and any documents and records which would clearly show it the truth of the matter?

Predictably, when the UKUUG’s “legal challenge” eventually found its way in front of a judge, it got short shrift. The Inquirer reports:

Mr Justice Lloyd Jones rejected the UKUUG's application for a judicial review last Thursday, giving the group until the break of dawn this Friday to raise a legal fund for an appeal. “This application does not disclose any arguable breach of the procedures of BSI or of rules of procedural fairness,” said Justice Jones on Thursday. “In any event, the application is academic in light of the adoption of the new standard by ISO,” he added.

This brings a decisive an end to some decidedly rum behaviour from the purportedly “intelligent and thoughtful” organization that is UKUUG, leaving its members to ask some interesting questions of its leadership.

International Appeals


The fate of the internal UK appeal foreshadows (I suspect) what will happen with the International ones. I believe they will be considered properly; but they will achieve nothing. In fact worse, they will be harmful: Patrick Durusau has written how their net effect will be to distract from needed reform of the JTC 1 standardisation process. The delay in publishing ISO/IEC 29500 will also delay its much needed maintenance and frustrate the very large number of countries who voted to approve DIS 29500 on the basis that it would come under an SC 34 maintenance regime.

Ultimately the balance needs to be got right. I believe the legitimate concerns of the protesting NBs should be heard and acknowledged, but that unless substantial new evidence emerges in this exercise, we should all move forward without further undue delay. It will benefit nobody to go through a lengthy exercise of paying lip service to insubstantial complaints. In that case, okay, these four countries may be mollified – but the overwhelming majority of other countries who expended so much effort in approving ISO/IEC 29500 will look on with increasing exasperation if it becomes apparent the appeals process is nothing more than a drawn-out diplomatic fudge. The multi-month appeals time frames being talked of are completely out of touch with modern ICT standardisation realities, let alone any conception of a “Fast Track” that still remains.

In any case, the appeals have certainly not distracted NBs from continuing to notice that the text of the (pending) ISO/IEC 29500 Standard has not been circulated to them, as the JTC 1 Directives clearly require. They have also noticed that the existence of appeals is no excuse for the non-appearance of this text.

It is to be hoped the JTC 1 NBs will take steps at the next JTC 1 plenary to curtail the power of the standards mandarins and issue instructions to circulate the revised text.

- Alex.

AH 
2008-06-12, 09:53
"Yes, I now have a complete copy of the final DIS version of OOXML. If you think that this is unfair -- and I would agree with you on that -- then maybe you should ask ITTF why I was able to get a copy of the final DIS, but no one else in SC34 was"

-- Rob Weir, May 19th


Really, what is going on here? How come he has it, and no-one else seems to?

Administrator (Alex Brown) 
2008-06-12, 10:04
@AH

I understand the revised text was submitted on time to ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC 34 by the Project Editor, and was briefly available for download so that a number of copies are now in circulation.

- Alex.

Inigo 
2008-06-12, 12:50
"Why is a Unix (Unix!) user group (user group!) so interested in DIS 29500 anyway?"

UKUUG is the "UK's Unix & Open Systems User Group", and one of its stated objects is "to provide a focus for the standardisation of techniques used in open systems.". Given that, I think it's entirely reasonable for UKUUG to be interested in XML document standards.

However, I feel the UKUUG's time and money would be better spent positively promoting the use of ODF and open data etc., rather than likely futile attempts to stop OOXML. Their upcoming Open Tech 2008 conference looks excellent, for example.

robbie enderle 
2008-06-13, 15:59
> It will benefit nobody to go through a lengthy exercise of
> paying lip service to insubstantial complaints.

Of course not.
After all when thousands of complaints and comments can be swiftly bypassed to ram something through like some puppet communist parliament (or the US passage of the Patriot Act that no one read!) why should anyone bother to listen to insubstantial complaints?


Next time why not just vote on something without bothering to have groups study and ask questions?
You will save lots of time and the end result will be the same.

This whole process was a disgraceful sham which has destroyed the credibility of the process and shown it to be filled of naive people (Seriously, no one EVER thought of having rules which would prevent the commission stuffing that happened? Really? No one thought that there would be people/groups that would join just for a one shot deal?)

Rick Jelliffe 
2008-06-16, 09:52
Thanks for the information, Alex. So UKUUG was a member and didn't turn up to the key meeting. How pathetic!

In voluntary organizations like (most) standard groups, there is no such thing as "stacking" that can be "prevented" by institutional means: there is only participation. If something is important to you, you participate. You don't leave it to other people, you don't use press releases and slurs, you don't use legal action, you don't demonstrate in the street, you don't sit in a corner and hold your breath until you turn blue, you don't take your bat and ball and go home, you don't look down on the plebs who do the standards drudgery for year after year with no thanks or compensation as if you are so special that you can avoid participation and go directly to the top, you just participate and play by the rules. Which requires you to actually turn up.

The most serious of the "don't"s is your "smoking out/intimidating" comment. It is shocking. If members do indeed feel that efforts were made to intimidate them, they should contact BSI and have BSI include this in any report BSI cares to send to European Commissioner Neelie Kroes, who is certainly interested in cartel behaviour as well as monopoly. In Australia, our local standards body had to resort to legal action to get a local paper to report correctly about Standards Australia's behaviour; and I know several standards people who refused to get involved, or who kept quiet because they didn't want to put up with the indiscriminate bullying and ranting.


hAl 
2008-06-26, 08:41
I wonder who funds the ODF alliance as ordinary membersship seems free.
They seem to publish a lot more about Office Open XML than they do on ODF.
Founding members IBM, Sun en Redhat might know who provides the funding though...

Matthew Wilcox 
2008-06-26, 21:47
Hi Alex,

I couldn't agree with you more about UKUUG. They seem to be fighting a dead fight. It's too late to get the UK's vote changed. It's too late for the UK to lodge a protest. I don't understand what they're fighting for.

Since one of the grounds for appeal is that the completed specification hasn't been circulated as required, I'm not quite sure why you think that the appeal is a bad idea. What other options are open to NBs who want to get hold of the final version of the specification?


Administrator (Alex Brown) 
2008-06-27, 05:28
@Matthew

It appears to me that UKUUG are interested in generating publicity - bad publicity for OOXML. It also appears (from their publicity) that they are now lodging an appeal to the High Court, funded by unknown sources. Their money quote? "The judge was wrong".

So far as I know the gist of the International appeals is not that the appealing NBs want the text to be circulated (and that then everything will be okay) -- they want the entire project to be abandoned.

Countries can protest to ITTF about the delayed text (they have). I suspect the most effective way countries can have an effect is to band together and express their opinion, at a forum such as the upcoming JTC 1 plenary.

- Alex.

Felix Oxley 
2008-07-09, 17:46
Alex,

"Countries can protest to ITTF about the delayed text"

what is the official reason for the delay?


Administrator (Alex Brown) 
2008-07-09, 18:01
@Felix

I do not know.

- Alex.

Felix Oxley 
2008-07-09, 18:25
Alex,

huh!!?? ... that really surprised me!

Have you asked?

Administrator (Alex Brown) 
2008-07-09, 18:58
@Felix

As a lowly committee participant I have no access to such information ...

- Alex.

Felix Oxley 
2008-07-09, 20:08
Alex,

that sounds overly modest to me :-)
I would say that you were the Convenor of the BRM, and that the text that is awaited is the direct product (and raison d'etre) of that BRM.

I presume that since you do not know the 'official' reason for the delay that indicates that one has not been given. (I am sure the blogosphere would have reported it).

So, as a highly involved party, what is your explanation (best guess) for the fact that the text is 3 months overdue?





Administrator (Alex Brown) 
2008-07-09, 21:30
@Felix

My role as convenor ended at 17:00 on 29 Feb 2008, with a glass or wine.

Once the appeals had been lodged, there is an argument that the Directives stipulate that the text should then not be circulated - the reason for the ealier delay I cannot guess at.

- Alex.

Felix Oxley 
2008-07-09, 22:41
Alex,

"Countries can protest to ITTF about the delayed text (they have)"

What response did they receive to their protests?

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